• "Offred was a wimp." Discuss.
  
• How did you feel about the Commander? Did he really believe that things were better in Gilead than in the old USA, or was he just trying to convince himself?
  
• Did you feel that Moira had actually escaped, or had she just swapped one tyranny for another?
  
• The Historical Notes - did you feel that they added to the novel, or did you feel that they detracted from it?
  
• Was it a boy book or a girl book?
  

I have my own opinions on all these things, but I thought it would be interesting to see what others said first.

Of course, any other comments about the book are welcome!

-I don't believe the Commander really felt things were better. I think he was just going along with the "powers that be." He knew deep down that the new order wasn't right.

-I felt strongly that Moira had simply swapped one tyranny for another. I think she knew that, too. Don't you?

-I thought the Historical Notes made for interesting food for thought. We read this for my book discussion group, and I remember lots of discussion regarding the Notes.

- Boy or girl book? Neither. I think it was a cautionary tale for both sexes. I don't think the men really had it much better than the women - everyone was really held prisoner by the system.

Vicki

If Offred was a wimp, then so am I. I agree with Vicki. I cannot imagine the horror of having a child and husband taken away from me and not knowing whether they were dead or alive. And while you might contemplate suicide, the chance that one day you might, maybe, chance-in-hell, find one another would prevent it. I'd grab at that tiny chance and do anything to stay alive. I felt Offred's powerlessness (is that a word?) and total disorientation.

How did you feel about the Commander? Did he really believe that things were better in Gilead than in the old USA, or was he just trying to convince himself?

He was revolting. I don't think I felt that strongly about him until I read the historical notes and it appeared that he might have been instrumental in a lot of rules and regulations, marketing and otherwise. I think it didn't turn out like he hoped and if he was miserable, Good. Hehehe!

Did you feel that Moira had actually escaped, or had she just swapped one tyranny for another?

One tyranny for another. On the other hand, she might have had a venereal disease by that time, and would have happily spread it. I like to believe that. There would have been a reason for living.
The Historical Notes - did you feel that they added to the novel, or did you feel that they detracted from it?

I think they added to it. For one thing, I learned a little more about the Commander. See above. I was also interested in the attitude of those who were participants. It also made me wonder what happened since that time. Nunavit is the location of the conference. That area is north of 60 degrees latitude, and close to the Arctic Circle, a very inhospitable and isolated area. What happened to the south?

Was it a boy book or a girl book?

It was a book for anyone who likes a challenging and intelligent thought exercise about society. Sex doesn't matter as the men were victims as much as the women. Gender didn't determine integrity or courage. I think Nick was heroic - he obviously arranged for the black van to show up when he knew that Offred was in trouble. From the historical notes, this action may have cost him a lot.
I read this book intitially when I didn't have children - it was more powerful on a reread. Since that time I have also learned a lot more about world religions. For anyone who doesn't think this novel is probable, read Nine Parts of Desire by Geraldine Brooks. Female circumcision is still going on today...and the thought of women under the Taliban makes me shudder. I think one of the reasons I didn't like The Red Tent was the society of that time. It made me extremely uncomfortable.

I gave this book to my daughter to read this summer and we discussed it. She takes so much for granted and doesn't realize that women have made more progress as far as rights go in the last 50 years than all of recorded history.

Martin,
I am still working my way through it but will tackle your last question (boy/girl book?). I really think it is both. Discussions like the one about 'fraternize' not having a feminine counterpart in language (such as 'sororize') scream "girl book." At the same time, the harshness of the world being depicted...the dangling bodies, the prison-like quality of the surroundings, the 'Ceremony'(no detail needed I hope)...all this shouts "boy book."

Unhappy Reading,
Tamara

Was Offred a wimp? OK, I admit I used emotive and unfair language there. It's far too strong a word. I know that she'd lost her husband and her daughter, and was obviously very depressed. But it did seem to me that she did nothing in the book under her own steam. Everything she did was as a result of what she was told. Even when she was having an affair with Nick, it was "under instructions", so to speak. And I find it difficult to relate the depressed woman who was so utterly unable to make any choices to the woman who was besotted (that's not too strong a word for it) with Nick. I felt it to be a betrayal to Ofglen (and women in general) that once she was involved with Nick, she was no longer interested in helping Ofglen and the network.

Whereas Moira - OK, she had without doubt swapped one tyranny for another. But she had made a choice. She had got out of a situation by her own strength and resourcefulness. We don't know how she ended up at Jezebel's but you may be sure that it was something she chose to do.

I must say I felt strongly that the Commander was not happy with the world he had created, though he was at least trying to convince himself and Offred. Mind, was anyone happy in that world?

And I'm in the minority, it would appear about the Historical Notes. I felt that they added nothing useful to the book. Even if I agreed about the information being useful to the novel, I thought the flippancy with which it was delivered jarred hideously with the seriousness of the rest of the book. If it had to be done, I would have preferred to see a scholarly appendix.

Which brings me to another point...did anyone else feel that there were parallels with Orwell's 1984? I'm referring to the Eyes being the same as the Thought Police, the way that Offred and Ofglen talking in installments being the same as Julia and Winston; and even the Historical Notes being reflected by the Appendix in 1984. I don't want to push this analogy too far - but the echoes kept recurring throughout the book. Maybe all tyrannical societies are like that?

But I think the book is brilliant, none the less. I may not like the behaviour of Offred, but I was still enthralled by the book; and at least she admitted that she was not proud of the way she behaved.

And yes - it's not a boy or girl book. But nevertheless, I bet, if they were judging by the title and the blurb, men would tend to reject it, and women would tend to read it.

Another question for the melting pot; how did you feel about Serena Joy? Was she a kind or unkind woman - or a mixture? Did you feel her action in giving Offred the picture of her daughter was just a way of persuading her to do what she wanted, or did you feel that she was actually trying to make overtures to make a partner of Offred?

And a couple for the more analytic among us. Any suggestions as to exactly where Gilead is situated? and when the book is set?

Regarding the historical notes, yes, I too thought the attitude of the participants was interesting. There was a flippancy - but possibly that might be part of the academic reaction to a study of historical events? Gallows humour? A sense of disassociation from that society?

Definite similarities to the other books that you mentioned. But I think that totalitarian states would share many of the same characteristics.

As for Serena Joy, I don't think things turned out as well as she was hoping, either. But she enjoyed her power - nope, didn't care for her too much.
***

My book contains an interview with Margaret Atwood. In it she says the novel took place in Cambridge, Mass. She says:

"There isn't anything in the book not based on something that has already happened in history or in another country, or for which actual supporting documentation is not already available."

""The society in The Handmaiod's Tale is a throwback to the early Puritans whom I studied extensively at Harvard under Perry Miller, to whom the book is dedicated. The early Puritans came to America not for religious freedom as we were taught in grade sachool, but to set up a society that would be a theocracy (like Iran) ruled by religious leaders, and monolithic, that is, a society that would not tolerate dissent within itself. They were being persecuted in England for being Puritans, but then they went to the United States and promptly began persecuting anyone who wasn't a Puritan. My book reflects the form and style of the early Puritan society and witnesses the dynamics that bring about such a situation."

It was really thought provoking how it was described happening...everything done with "compubanks"? How many of us dispense with cash & checks and use our ATM cards for all our transactions? How many pay all their bills on line? It wouldn't take long to go from here to there with that scenario?

I thought Offred was just trying to survive in the cicrumstances she found herself. I didn't think she was a wimp, after all she had observed what happened to those that rebelled or refused to accept the Aunt's teachings. She was hoping for escape and finding her daughter and never seemed to stop looking for Luke.
I did find it interesting that Luke was named constantly, but we never have a name for her daughter?

As for the role that the Handmaid's played-it made me shudder. I remember when I read it many years ago feeling such disgust as the rituals of procreation and birth-how did any of those women stand it-it must have been so humiliating for both the wives and the handmaids. On rereading I was just grateful that this was fiction!

Moira was the opposite of Offred there was no way she was going to accept being a Handmaid and escaped. I remember that when Offred saw her in that club she told that she was captured and given a choice of working at that club or being sent west to work in the clean up...never was quite sure but it sounded like a radio-active type clean up. Any choice that she made, she probably wouldn't last long.

The whole society of Gilead was so hypocritical-"do as I say-not as I do" mentality. The lower levels of the society being forced to live the life whilst the Commanders were free to break all the rules if they chose.

The Historical notes actually confused me, it was almost as if it was being suggested that the whole Gilead episode might have been fiction and then left the reader up in the air to decide if it all really happened.

Pat

Janalyn - I have no argument with this. But - if we accept the necessity for an explanatory chapter at the end to explain the context of the tale (which I actually don't feel was necessary) - then to my mind it should not have been written like this. I've no criticism of the participants - my criticism is with the author. She could have written the explanatory chapter in half-a-dozen different ways - I felt that the way she chose to do it seemed completely at odds with the rest of the book.

I don't quite know how I have the cheek to criticize Margaret Atwood! But still...I do feel quite strongly about this - I consider it to be a major flaw in the book. I think it would have been a better novel without the Notes at all.

Is it possible that the Historical Notes were put in to make that point - that the lessons of that society did not seem to be taken seriously? Just a thought.

I think that Atwood is a brilliant writer. I like your description, Tamara: "nugget-filled." I was reading Confessions of a Pagan Nun" at the same time as this, and I kept comparing the two - probably very unfairly. Confessions seemed almost anemic in contrast.

I think Ms. Atwood exaggerates when she infers that there was nothing in the book that hasn't happened before. The Puritans may have been austere, but were they voyeurs and did they enjoy cruelty? (I know there are always a few oddballs, but generally speaking.) She doesn't have anything positive to say about religion except at least the Baptists were still fighting down south.

Carolyn - I didn't see this novel as anti-religious. Anti-extremist, sure. The Muslim faith has been warped by fanatics in terrible ways. There are extremist Christians too, who don't appear to me to be using Jesus as a role model. Quakers and other Christians, including Catholics were among those who helped Moira escape the first time. Moira said, "As long as you said you were some sort of a Christian and you were married, for the first time that is, they were still leaving you pretty much alone. They were concentrating first on the others. The got them more or less under control before they started in on everyone else."

Because this novel is written from Offred's limited point of view, we never do really undertand what is taking place outside the Center. I do not for a moment believe that this doctrine was accepted by everyone--I'm sure there was strong resistance.

Another point that I thought was sadly true was how generations forget. Offred remembered the way things used to be. Her daughter may remember a little. However, Offred's granddaughter will accept the coloured dresses and way of life as "normal."

One of the themes of this novel was the nature of power. Could someone help me out with this paragraph. Offred is speaking. It's the underlined sentence that I'm not sure I understand:

"But if you happen to be a man, sometime in the future, and you've made it this far, plese remember; you will never be subject to the temptation or feeling you must forgive, a man, as a woman. It's difficult to resist, believe me. But remember that forgiveness too is a power. To beg for it is a power, and to whithhold or bestow it is a power, perhaps the greatest." Chapt. 23 p.168

"But if you happen to be a man, sometime in the future, please remember: you will never be subject to the temptation or feeling you must forgive a man, as a woman."

The power of a comma, eh!

I think the Commander who was in on the deal very early believed he could control it and enjoy the situation but - well he was in marketing research, and believed his own sales pitch. When it didn't work he resorted to the brothel.

The 'Pilgrims aka. Puritans' were a sect of Anabaptists called Brownists, so narrow and intolerant they were thrown out of every country in Europe, for criticizing their neighbours and the governments, even that of tolerant Holland. They were unpleasant people for all the latter day whitewash. I have to eat, I'll post again.

I personally felt the novel (written in the mid-eighties) was set only about 10/15 years ahead. Mainly due to the fact that the Playboy outfits still existed, and so did 70's/80's women's magazines. And I did feel that perhaps too much had happened in too short a time; the positions of the Handmaids, the Aunts, the Marthas seemed too well established and unarguable considering that it could only have been a few years in the making. Any other thoughts about that?

What did you think of Nick and the first Ofglen?

I would hate to think that all the things that happened could actually happen in a short 10 yrs. I am still thinking Atwood was describing a future 100 yrs ahead.

Pat

According to the historical notes, the robes were the Commander's ideas. Perhaps based on other religions? When the Ayatollah ousted the Shah, it didn't take very long before women lost most of their rights, including what to wear.

A thought crosses my mind - going back to the "boy book/girl book" bit. I have a feeling that this is a book which a man might read and be impressed by - and be upset by on an intellectual level ("How terrible - I hope nothing like that ever happens..."). That's how it feels to me.

But to women, judging by some of the comments above, the book resonates on a personal level; possibly because most (all?) women have met male oppression (to some extent) during their lives...?

I have a legal background so I am very aware how lucky I am to be living in this place and time enjoying all these choices and freedoms. It wasn't so long ago that women couldn't even vote or own property. It wasn't so long ago that women had few reproductive rights or had "illegitimate" children. What an awful adjective. It resonates with me because there are women in other countries who do not have these freedoms. I think of the Taliban, see those women and think, "There but for the Grace of God go I."

I don't think I have been oppressed---although I do think the workplace could be more accommodating to working moms. I have met an equal number of men and women who baffle me and are in my Jerk Department.

So I think, "How terrible - I hope nothing like that ever happens to me or my daughter or my daughter's children. I will always remember history and do everything I can to keep those rights. How terrible that women are still being oppressed in this world - and how terrible that I am not doing anything to change that."

As Janalyn pointed out, reading about the Taliban and Muslim law in general is completely frightening. I, too, feel extremely grateful to live where I do and when I do. Truly, there but for the grace of God go I. It's numbing to think of freedoms we take for granted being taken away and being reduced to chattel.

Having now read a good bit regarding women's historical roles in religion and society, I simply cannot understood why mankind (using very general, sweeping terms, here, nothing personal guys!) has historically feared and/or loathed womankind so much that they've spent the better part of the past 3,000 years making sure we're kept in line and under male control. I just don't get it at all. I'm very grateful to live in more enlightened times among more enlightened men!

This weekend saw the 10th anniversary re-showing of the first 'Prime Suspect' programme. It proved as fast paced and exciting as it did on the first showings. Being 10 years older, I noticed how Tennyson's significant other had almost zero tolerance for her staggering in exhausted, with bags of groceries.

But she manipulated too and who'd blame her, courting and mothering the younger men in the squad, separating them from the older members by taking them with her on interesting work.

It was pure chance viewing this, whilst reading the book, but Tennyson, the antithesis of Offred had many handicaps. I thought the Commander's wife sounded like a blend of Mirabel Morgan and Tammy Lee Bakker. She forgot the Portugese saying, 'Be careful what you wish for - you may get it'.

Martin, not every male is as decent as you. 19 years ago, I attempted to juggle part time work and full time study. My ex-husband sabotaged my efforts at every turn. I'd arrive home from school and/or work, laden with groceries, to find the bathroom a mess, dirty dishes in the dishwasher plus kitchen worktops cluttered and dirty.

If I graduated I could get a better paying job and that would have undermined his ability to control things. I should have ignored it, but alas, it's not in my nature.

Is Offred a wimp? Of course not. She is a victim; first of all, of an oppression and tyranny so great it envelops every sphere of her life. An overwhelming and unforgiving power that can obliterate huge portions of her existence at will – or whim. It has a continued stranglehold over the very essence of her private being – her womanhood - and she is reminded of it every day, in the robe she is required to wear, in the ritualistic manner in which her day is structured. Like all victims of tyranny she muddles through as best she can – and her attitude to her oppressors has a duality common enough. She alternately despises the Commander, fears him, is contemptuous of him and yet is pleased and somewhat comforted by his attempts to seek her out privately and extend their relationship into a more human and emotional level. At every step she takes greater and greater risks – mostly in those areas that are denied or negated in Gilead – privacy, love, sex and family. She is ultimately heroic because she survives to tell her tale.
The Commander? A man corrupted by absolute power. Typical of all totalitarians. Having achieved power he believes he is above the dictates he so rigidly enforces on others. Still like all humanity he still has a need for the loving, committed, unforced touch of another. But he is so emotionally crippled he tries to obtain it the only way he knows how – by the manipulation of someone over whom he has complete control. Like most totalitarians in history he is swept away in the second wave of revolutionary fervour.
Moira? She escaped to live for a while on her own terms. Prostitution can be a power relationship for the woman as well. It can be a gesture of contempt towards the men she services. The Commanders and others of higher status surrender their absolute power – however briefly- when they seek her out. I think Atwood says somewhere in the book " that where so little power is shared a tiny amount is valued very highly" - paraphrasing there but I’m sure the sense is right.
The Historical Notes? Definitely added to the book. Besides giving us the probable facts of Offred’s escape, and the fates of the possible Commanders it places Gilead firmly as part of a continued and repeated historical process. That totalitarianism is a recurring phenomena and every totalitarian regime has its seeds in previous regimes and in elements of the society which it overthrows. I think it reminds us that there are influences all around us which have, at least, a germ of tyranny and oppression, and denial of humanity – in both western and non – western societies. The notes also serve to remind us of the human suffering, despair and heroism of the peoples behind the bare facts of history, so clinically and flippantly laid out by the lecturer.
Boy or Girl Book? Well as I said picked this up without expectation because I had the feeling that it may be, if not a girl book, at least written from a rigidly female perspective. Found it not the least so. It is about humanity, and what happens when the most basic facts of our humanity are denied or warped by rigidly controlling and twisted regimes. It is also about the redemptive power of love and how the absence and denial of that love, either sexual, fraternal in the widest sense, communal and familial, lies at the very heart of why totalitarian regimes, of whatever flavour, ultimately crash. The Commander at one point asks Offred is there any flaw in the structure of the new society. She replies, "you have forgotten all about love". He is somewhat mystified, which says it all really.
The final chapter is called The Salvaging. Besides being about a religious and political rite of punishment and scape goating it begins by Offred beginning her own salvation in giving herself to Nick. It is a headlong, unfettered, renewing, erotic and salving reclaiming of her sexuality and humanity. It binds her to him and he to her. He confirms that bond by ultimately "salvaging’ Offred in staging her escape. Offglen salvages Offred’s life by taking her own "She died, that I might Live" Offred says. Echoic of the ultimate salvation in Christian terms – the salvation offered by the death of Christ " He died, that we might live." I think that is Atwood’s point. Beyond all travail and straitjacketing, political, religious, sexual or social – love and humanity is our ultimate salvation.
Beyond all this I can't speak highly enough of the quality of the writing, the beauty of Atwood's language, her wit, her grasp of history and her sweeping gorgeous humanity. A truly great book. Did I say that before?
Larry

I did want to comment on the question, is this science fiction? Yes, of course it is. I have noticed that any time a mainstream literary writer produces a science fiction novel, people immediately worry whether or not it could "really" be science fiction, as though being a good book bars it by definition from that classification.

Readers who enjoyed this novel might also like Louise Marley's novel The Terrorists of Irustan.

Paula

The winner that year? The Old Devils by Kingsley Amis. One of the only Booker Prize winners I have given up on - it totally failed to capture my imagination. A "comedy" about a bunch of old farts in Wales; a sort of Last of the Summer Wine without the whimsical humour.

I give up sometimes trying to understand what prize judges are looking for in a book...I am quite sure that history will sneer at that choice, and consider The Handmaid's Tale to be by far the better book.

Oh, well.

What a horrible thought experiment that draws on current cultural experiences (compubanks, Vogue, etc), while creating associations with recent memories of the worst of human nature:

-slavery (female underground railroad)
-holocaust (loading people up in trucks like cattle for punisment/slaughter)
-persecution of witches of Salem (scene where Handmaids attack).

In the end, it produces a shocking realization of just how utterly possible and close-at-hand, Atwood's world may be (rather than a far off Martian landscape of a hardcore science fiction novel...I like the term 'speculative fiction' btw and hope to some day try the recommendations listed above).

I do not think Offred was a wimp. I think she was heroic in that she took measures to record the happenings of her fallen world so that future people may learn from the mistakes. To be willing to survive under such wretched, degrading, and controlling circumstances to pass along the warning to later generations, at what must have been great personal risk (what if she were to get caught?), implies much more courage than opting for the instant gratification of Jezebel's or escape through suicide.

The Historical Notes. Hmmm. I saw these more as just a way to show that the previous civilization had died and was being studied at some point in the future. Gilead obviously collapsed, as acedemics of this new society were reviewing the notes/tapes as if spoils of an archeological find. Here we have a futuristic civilization that appears to have been pushed back to what seemed to be the farthest earthly extremes, the result of having squandered resources, reproductive disasters having ended civilizations, and yet still the academic attitude is flippant and distant as if in denial (it was them in the distant past but has nothing to do with us). The idea of Atwood's book indicates that people at that point in time must learn from their mistakes..and QUICKLY, as there is no where left to run. Yet Atwood's insertion of sarcasm and jeering remarks indicates she thinks people are too stubborn and thickheaded ever to accomplish this. In this sense, the notes and grotesque humor could not have been more artfully designed.

And a comment on the writing. As I meantioned earlier, Atwood even manages to take some of the most beautiful things in the world such as "flowers" and "pearls" and turn them into 'plant genitals' and 'congealed oyster spit'...the exact logical opposite of a euphemism. Is there a technical word for this? I don't know but it was awesome. The world she describes is very colorful and graphic, and the beauty of her writing salvages the reader and keeps him/her trudging through the thoughts, possibilities, and ramifications of such a dismal world.

A few years ago I was helping a friend with an assignment in women's studies which involved either reading this book or seeing the movie. My friend opted for the latter (though I had checked out the book thinking that for a university class one must always opt for the path of more work if one wanted to score well). The movie was so shocking that I promptly returned the book to the library without so much as reading 10 pages. I am so glad that RP selected this book for reading as I never would have gone back to it without some encouragement. And what I would have missed!

Sorry for being so late and longwinded,
Tamara

Handmaid (a babymaker?)
Wife (would the social role of marriage be enough to subsist--without physical consummation or love?)
Jezebel (a physical vessel for sex?)
Martha (a life of household chores?)
Aunt (a guardian/disciplinarian?).

Just as a prism shears visible light into its component colors, Atwood has taken the female role and broken it down into its most limited, granular realms. Which would I want to occupy?

But even if I feel she doesn't come out well, I can at least admire her honesty in admitting her behaviour.

Any other comments - new or old contributors?

I'm prepared to concede I might well be being a little hard on Offred - I just felt upset with the way that she "rebelled" so selfishly with Nick, rather than continue to help Ofglen.

With THT, LTD and Wahibbism it seems as if those males with Alpha pretensions want to grab as many females and raise as many offspring as possible. The 'Nicks' of the culture should what? Think pure thoughts, take cold showers? Yet in THT the Alpha Male culture wasn't working, remember Ofglen's 'Unbaby?' That was terrible. I suspect that with the sects, both fict and real life eventually they fall apart. But, alas, when?

Don't forget that she'd been shown the picture of the child as a reward for going against the rules - for agreeing to try to get pregnant illegally with Nick, with the cooperation of Serena Joy. There might have been more incentive not to help Ofglen in case her child was injured, but it didn't stop Offred from taking that risk by carrying on an incredibly dangerous affair with Nick.

My copy is back in the library, too, but I distinctly remember that in the Historical Notes there was a reference to the children being kept as hostages for good behaviour. They said that if someone had left/escaped the regime and complained through the media etc, an ear etc for example, from their child would be mailed to them. They were wondering why more hadn't been heard from Offred after her escape.

OK, you've convinced me....!

Some of the book, the toxic environment etc, is a little too close for comfort. Last week, the weather was incredibly hot and humid and a smog advisory was issued from Toronto's lakeshore more than 50 miles north. I live in this area. This part of Southern Ontario is part of a basin, once a huge inland sea. Thus a giant weather inversion makes it impossible for pollution to be blown away.

Like I said before - this may be a boy/girl thing. I really feel that women resonate with this book - men are just impressed with it. It's not a surprise that it was written by a woman.

I enjoyed the Commando Mummy and Daddy images. I remember when I was a child my parents telling me that parents would risk any danger to protect their children. I was dubious. I knew I was not very brave and secretly doubted I could ever rise to the challenge. But years later as a parent, I felt that Commando rage rise up in me any time it was needed. Nature keeps the species going. If we didn't have it, we would have been wiped out long ago.

Paula

In any event, if you know any gay Aussies who want to get married, send them here to Vancouver. It's legal.

It isn’t a matter of trying to control everyone but to live according to precepts laid out in the Bible. It is a basic conflict between believers in that strict code and those who think differently. You can hardly blame people for trying to prevent what they see as a collapse of society any more than you blame those who are trying to establish what they see as a free society. There is no shame in that.

In fact, the LDS church organized the oldest women's organization in the world, which is still in existence and which empowers women for their own and others' benefit - every month they meet to work on worldwide humanitarian projects as well as cultural and personal enrichment projects. They also have weekly educational meetings.

Speaking of education, LDS communities have extremely high percentages of college-educated individuals, both male and female. I have never heard anything about girls being forced to quit school because of marriage, unless it is in those strange situations described earlier. I went to school with children still at home, and I received educational financial assistance from the LDS church.

My married daughter is currently attending a university, although she has already been certified as both an EMT and Phlebotomist, working and volunteering for the American Red Cross; she also receives educational assistance from the LDS church, and she has a baby at home.
Another daughter worked as a District Training Manager for Barnes and Noble, both before and after marriage; she still works for B & N, and she has a one-year-old at home.

I don't know what your personal experiences have been, but I know what is taught by our leadership and it in no way supports the suppression of women. Most of the LDS women I have known have worked outside the home or had their own businesses, and we are encouraged to develop career skills, even if married, since 40% of females who marry become single through death or divorce.

Staying at home with young children is a personal choice, and it would be ideal if both parents could do so. We are to use our best judgement and prayer, in considering any decisions we make.

I think that it does any thoughtful commentary a disservice, whenever sweeping statements are used to support ideas: please don't do so about Mormons or any other group, including homosexuals, Muslims, Conservatives, etc. Just because we have standards of behavior that we believe in adhering to, it doesn't mean we are cruel or deserve to be made fun of - I do think that naming legal same-sex unions a "marriage" is a form of Doublespeak by definition, isn't it?

That being said, I want to add that I was powerfully affected by Margaret Atwood's hypnotic prose in THT. Her measured cadences contribute to the deeply controlling atmosphere within which Offred exists. Did any of you experience this?

I never saw Offred as wimpy or weak, but I did wish she could have continued her support of Offglen and the other women. The Historical Notes added to my understanding of MA's theme, I felt, by putting Offred's time at a "safe" distance from later analysts and academics, thereby showing them at risk for a repeat. For me, THT is definitely a cautionary tale.

Diane